FILE 009 - CIA's First Line of Defense: Security Protective Officers
Walter: At CIA, we work around the clock and across the globe to help keep Americans and others around the world safe. Secrecy is often vital to our work.
Dee: But we’re committed to sharing what we can when we can. So let us be your guides around the halls of Langley as we open our files and speak with those who have dedicated themselves to this mission.
Walter: These are their stories.
Walter and Dee: This is The Langley Files.
Walter: Surrounded by vibrant green forests, CIA’s modernist multi-building headquarters in Langley, Virginia, is known as one of the most carefully secured facilities in the world. Within it, every day, Agency officers coordinate intelligence operations overseas, analyze the highly classified information those operations yield, and perform the range of support functions necessary to make all of that possible, enabling CIA to be America's first line of defense.
Dee: But who defends those CIA officers? Who keeps the critical hub of Agency operations, CIA Headquarters, secured? Well today on The Langley Files, you're going to learn about one critical component.
Walter: His name is David, and we're about to sit down with him.
Dee: I'm Dee.
Walter: I'm Walter. Welcome back to The Langley Files.
Dee: Thanks everyone for tuning in. I know that Walter and I are really excited to sit down with you, David. And we really appreciate your time being here on The Langley Files. We're all very appreciative of the work that you do here for the Agency.
Walter: Yeah, David, I have a lot of favorite people at CIA, which is a phrase that you should be really careful saying…
Walter: … in certain contexts around the world. But you are definitely on my list. And I know so many folks here, you’re a professional and yet affable, uh, presence here at Langley. So we're excited to sit down with you.
David: Yeah, absolutely. Like, I mentioned before, I've been listening to The Langley Files since season one, episode one and fast forward to now. It's just, it's truly an honor to be a guest on the show and kind of give you guys a glimpse of the world that we live in.
Dee: And we appreciate that.
Walter: Well, he's a premium subscriber.
Dee: Good to know, good to know.
Walter: Just kidding.
David: I didn't even know that was a thing, but I'm definitely doing it.
Walter: So, uh, you're a security protective officer here at CIA, a position that many listeners might not be familiar with off the bat. Can you tell us a little bit about your job and its key responsibilities?
David: Absolutely. So, as a security protective officer for the Central Intelligence Agency, we are sworn federal law enforcement officers. And our key responsibility really is we’re the first line of defense here at Langley. We're at the gates. We’re outside making sure that those people who we don't want here don't come in to allow those key personnel, you know, inside the buildings, to be able to conduct the work that they need to on a day in day out basis.
Dee: Great. And just to provide some kind of insider baseball here to our listeners, you're a Security Protective Officer. We call those lovingly SPOs here at the Agency. So, your role falls under the Directorate of Support. And the Directorate of Support, if you're thinking of this organizationally, this particular cadre of occupations is really what helps to let the Agency function and complete its mission. So think about logistics, finance, we have HR, general support, and then, of course, our security officers. We even have doctors, nurses, medical staff, firefighters. So it's a unique accumulation of different occupations to make sure that things function well here. So I just wanted to give people that kind of insight before we get too far into this conversation.
Walter: Yeah, absolutely. So, actually, and before we dive into more about the job, could you tell us about your own background because you had a cool story before even joining CIA?
David: Yeah. So, I joined the Marine Corps right out of high school and I started as an avionics technician where I was assigned out in California, working on Hueys and Cobras, which was a super cool opportunity and a really awesome job to really just kind of get my feet wet and figure out what was what in the military. And as I learned a little bit more, I switched gears and switched over to being a Marine security guard. And with that I was able to travel for essentially three years straight. I spent time in Baghdad, Iraq, Kishinev, Moldova, and Beijing, China, and then to tie into there, my follow-on job after the Marine Corps, I was a contractor for the U.S. State Department Bureau of Diplomatic Security. From there, I really kind of just hit the ground running with trying to figure out what was what in the in the civilian world and trying to adjust for life after the military. Um, a lot of cool opportunities that all of those jobs entailed, which ultimately led me to where I'm at today.
Dee: Just for my own curiosity, what’s a Huey and a Cobra?
David: Oh, it is two major types of helicopters that the Marine Corps is still using today.
Dee: Ok, very cool. And those are – it's a very wide range of locations that you've worked at. Did you have a preference of location when you're out there?
David: Yeah. So, honestly, Baghdad, Iraq was probably my favorite place to be. Um, it sounds a little weird thinking that a war zone is going to be, you know, someone's favorite spot. But really, it comes down to people. Um, you have a lot of really awesome people from the Marines that I served with to our, um, law enforcement partners that were out there. It was just such an incredible staff being out there that it made the time fly by. It made the long days and the hot days all worth it in the end.
Dee: That’s fair, ok.
Walter: And so in those three locations overseas, you were securing U.S. Embassies in Iraq, Moldova, and China.
David: That's correct. Yeah. So, uh, similar to being a SPO here at headquarters, we were the first line of defense over there. We were really the only line of defense over there, which kind of really put that much more emphasis on the job that we were doing. Um, we were, we were all we had. So in the event that something happened, where an embassy needed to be evacuated or secured due to whatever incidents may take place, even all the way down to natural disasters, Marine Security Guards are the first element that's going to be on scene to help Americans and locals who are employed by the embassy.
Dee: Sure. Just a wide range of experiences that you had while doing those particular roles. And you talked about, you know kind of that led to this. But you've only been with us for a little over a year, if I'm correct in that, right?
Dee: So at the end of the day, you're, you're done with those assignments - what was it that actually was like you know, CIA might be the place for me? What made you want to apply to work here?
David: So I didn't even know that the life of a SPO was actually a thing until I had a personal connection with the Agency and a dear friend said, “Hey, I think this would be a good role for you to kind of slide into. Life after the military can sometimes be uncertain. But I think this would be a good fit for you.” And at that point in my life, I wasn't in a position to close any doors. I was willing to take on, you know, whatever really kind of fell in my lap. So when I transitioned out of the military, truthfully, I just started sending applications out to any law enforcement agency, whether that be federal or state or local. And I told myself it doesn't matter who it is, but whichever one calls me back first, I'm gonna give them the time, the effort and the energy, because they're willing to do that for me. And believe it or not, the CIA called me back first. It was a complete shock. Yeah, but they did. And I'm, I'm extremely thankful, you know that they did, because it's been such a cool opportunity so far.
Dee: Very cool. And I was going to point out, I feel that Walter has a similar story. He threw out some applications, and ironically, CIA was the first to call you back, right?
Walter: I was actually thinking that as you were telling that story David. I, um yeah, I did the same thing. I put in a bunch of applications to a bunch of different parts of the government and some other places. And, uh, and I was stunned when CIA got back to me first.
David: Yeah, I mean, it was it was super, um, it left me speechless. Really, it did.
David: Thinking that the CIA, you know, the one that everyone hears about from when they're a child to, you know, their current period in life is calling me back. It was it was truly just such a surreal phone call to receive.
Walter: Exact word I was going to use. It’s surreal. Yeah. Um, so zooming out - what kind of skills and experiences does it take to become a SPO here at CIA? It seems like your background, David, clearly set you up for so many of them. But for someone who didn’t necessarily guard embassies with the U.S. Marines, what are the job qualifications?
David: You know, we really look for just such a wide variety of people. And I think that's a super interesting part about the federal government in general. Is it's not necessarily, oh, we're looking for this specific degree or this specific background. It's just such a diverse playing field essentially to a lot broader of an audience that, you know, may have interest in applying here.
Dee: So recognize what you just said, and not everybody has the same experience that you have coming into a job like this. Is there something in particular, whether it's a particular skill or personality trait that kind of binds you all together as like a cohort of what makes up our SPOs here?
David: You know, while having the prior law enforcement and the prior military is such a invaluable thing to have coming here, really it's just having those officers who are willing to show up every day, put their best foot forward, and really just provide that service to, you know Langley and be able to provide the support that's necessary to allow, like I'd mentioned, everyone inside to do their job safely and with the reassurance that that we're here and we have their back.
Dee: Makes sense. Absolutely.
Walter: So is there an entrance exam or some kind of qualifier?
David: Absolutely. So you know what will end up happening is you'll submit, you know, all the documents that are required of you online, and from there you'll end up getting a conditional offer of employment. From there, you'll be in touch with an HR specialist who will kind of guide you throughout the process, letting you know what you need to do from personality exams to providing more documentation. Uh, and then you'll also be required to do essentially like a pre-employment physical fitness test, right, because we as law enforcement entities for the CIA, right, we do need to make sure we have a level of physical fitness to be able to respond and perform the actions that are required of us. So…
Walter: I was going to ask what's the physical fitness requirement like?
David: Yea, absolutely. The the self-administered physical efficiency battery exam that you'll do prior to applying or when you're in the application process is going to consist of a 1.5 mile run, a 300 meter sprint, max pushups in one minute time period, and you're gonna do a sit and reach.
Walter: There's no swimming requirement?
David: No swimming.
Dee: That’s good to know.
Walter: Just wanted to clarify that.
Dee: Every other thing, but not swimming.
Walter: No swimming.
Dee: So you guys go through the entrance exam and you start. Now you have to go through, I'm assuming, some kind of formal training right? So, could you share a little bit about what that experience was for you? Was anything standing out as particularly unique about the Agency's training for this particular role?
David: So once you get on-boarded and you're hired and you're, you're starting your first day at CIA, you're gonna end up going to what we call a pre-FLETC time period. FLETC is the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, which is located down in Glynco, Georgia. It's a 12-week long training period that 90 plus federal agencies send their police officers to to ensure that everyone's kind of on the same sheet of music when it comes to the level of policing that's provided by those respective agencies. So, uh, prior to going down, you're going to start learning really just kind of what it is to be a SPO, right? You want to learn a lot of the terminology and, um, just trying to figure out you know what the best tips and tricks are to master the trade in the smallest amount of time, right, to be as efficient as possible. And then you're gonna go down to FLETC, the 12-week period, where you're gonna go over everything from firearms to legal training, to defensive tactics and driving, and and so much more in this jam packed 12-week course.
Walter: Any stand out memories from the course?
David: So after going through Marine Corps training, I knew that it was going to be a level of difficulty, um, but really, it was really heavy on the on the schooling. But, the firearms was always a great time to get out and really become proficient with a firearm, whether you had shot before or this was your first time. That's what made it really great about this course is everyone was really on the same page all the way up to driving cars at an accelerated rate on a controlled racetrack that consisted of basically a pursuit, and through that, we were required of our instructors to perform certain tasks and be able to point out key pieces of information, essentially trying not to drive faster than we can think, which was difficult at times.
Walter: Wow. Not drive faster than you can think.
Walter: Yeah, that's interesting. Wow. When we were chatting earlier you mentioned something about a skid pad and evading cones, could we we sort of unspool that little bit?
David: Oh, for sure. So that was definitely one of the highlights of my time down at FLETC. We go through basically being able to manipulate your vehicle in the event that you're hydroplaning or you're coming across a body of water where you're, you're losing control of your vehicle. So, they would set up a series of obstacles with cones, and the entire concrete pad would just be slick with water. And we would be driving at 30, 40, 50 miles an hour, sometimes 60, and we would hit, uh, uncontrolled spin and we had to be able to manipulate the vehicle, um, to a safe halt or to a safe direction to ensure, you know, really, in the real-world sense, you know, we're not going to injure anyone else. We're not gonna injure ourselves. We're going to try and preserve that order as much as we can with that additional training that we've received.
Walter: While in pursuit of another vehicle?
David: While in pursuit of another vehicle at times. So, yeah, it's definitely uh, it's definitely not what the normal person may think about it. But now it was definitely an experience that I'll remember forever.
Walter: That’s incredible.
Walter: Um, oh, and actually, you mentioned just now that you're a federal law enforcement organization, but not in the sense that folks might be familiar with. So could you speak a bit about the uniqueness of of what the Security Protective Service does here at CIA?
David: When I was when I was first hired, uh, this is not your traditional law enforcement through and through. While we are sworn federal law enforcement officers by going to the FLETC down in Georgia, when we return, we're really a force protection entity. We want to make sure, like I mentioned, those people inside, once they pass through our checkpoint in the morning, they come in and they know they can work in a safe environment. So if that law enforcement authority has to be exercised, we do. But really, we're here to make sure that the people who come past us every day are working in a safe environment.
Dee: I’m glad that you just said that because I think that’s a really important point to make. So, while our Security Protective Service is a law enforcement entity, the CIA itself is an intelligence, not a domestic law enforcement authority, unlike other agencies like the FBI, which is actually the primary domestic law enforcement agency for the federal government. So SPS’ law enforcement authorities are really for the purpose of keeping CIA’s facilities and our personnel safe, and, you know, actually they do a wide variety of different functions in order to do that.
Walter: I think you guys helped me jump start my car once. I should say, so.
David: You're welcome.
Walter: Thank you.
David: Did we really?
Walter: Yeah, you did. It was years ago.
David: I remember when you came to the gate and you were like, “I think my car got towed.”
Walter: Oh, my God. I think I was debating whether not to mention that…
David: You can cut that out.
Walter: It had been towed 100%. Yeah.
Dee: You were just in the wrong lot or something?
Walter: Yeah, I was out, like in Tatooine, and, um yeah, right. I had been in the wrong lot. It was corrected for me, and I was put where I belonged in Tatooine, out in the far reaches. Um, that it was a nice night, moon was out.
Dee: Um, double moons.
Walter: Yes, right. That's right.
Dee: So, David, can you maybe tell what the best type of day is being a SPO here at the Agency, and then maybe, conversely, what a worst day might look like for you?
David: Wow, that's a, that is a loaded question, for sure.
Dee: I mean of course what you can share.
David: So, of course you know the best day really looks like, you know, you just you're you're working with great people. Like I'd mentioned about my time in the military, that people can can make or break you know what you do. You’re with these folks for eight plus hours a day and to be able to keep that conversation going with the person to your left and right really makes makes all the difference. So, um, even if the weather is gloomy, the weather is is torturing hot. Um, really, the people make it. So the best day is gonna be, you know, to the left and right of you are just solid officers that, you know, you're going to have a really good shift with, uh, things are relatively quiet. That's a word we try not to say in our profession, because once we do, something generally ends up going wrong. Um, but even on the worst day, I would say having those people that you know are going to do the right thing that, that you know they’re gonna step up when work needs to get done and they're not going to shy away from it, it can turn what you would think would be the worst day into, uh, you know, a pretty okay day at the end of it.
Dee: So we are located here in Langley, Virginia. Um, you have to at one point work kind of hand in hand with local police department, fire departments things like that. Can you maybe speak to that relationship and what that looks like?
David: Here at Langley we have a super close working relationship with Fairfax County Fire, Fairfax County Police Department, and the U.S. Park Police Service, all within the surrounding area here at Langley. On a case-by-case basis, you know, we're often called to work hand in hand with them, uh, for a response you know of things that happen here at Langley, whether that be medical emergencies, um, to exercising, potentially, that that law enforcement authority that we do have um, will often call in Fairfax or U.S. Park police depending um, where we see fit.
Walter: And it seems like one of the unique things about the job is actually that it involves an unusual intersection. What I think would be an unusual intersection, of international affairs and protective security work.
David: Absolutely. You know, being a security protective officer and just working for the Central Intelligence Agency in general, right, there's an inherent risk that is involved in this type of work. And so we have to keep that in mind. We have to stay up to date on current events, not just here in the United States, but across the globe. Um, because of the presence and and kind of what the CIA does, you know, we have to be, remain vigilant. We want to make sure that the people that come past us every day, they know they can go and work in their offices, and in their environment safely to continue to, you know, move the mission forward.
Walter: It might also be worth noting that you all are unusual for CIA officers and that you have a uniform that you wear every day, which is not something people associate with CIA typically.
David: Yeah. You know, we are a completely full functioning, full servicing uh, uniform division of a police department, where you know, we're not a stand-alone police department where, you know, we're just a small section of the larger Agency. Um, but we are uniformed. We’re identified, uh, you can point us out in a crowd full of people and that's ultimately what we want. We want people to know that we're here. We want people to know that we're moving around the compound, we’re moving around the campus. And when something happens that you know, we're going to respond in a timely fashion.
Dee: I mean, I know I can speak on behalf of almost everybody at the Agency that I appreciate knowing that you guys are present, whether it is at the gate, whether it is in the building. Just knowing that you're a phone call away should we need you or, you know, drive up to the to the gate, should we need you, I think that's just a reassuring thing like you said, to allow us to do the jobs that we need to do for the mission. So, on behalf of everyone, I would say thank you for that.
David: Thank you very much. I can tell you, we really do appreciate it.
Walter: So, David, as we were saying earlier, you you're still fairly new to the Agency. What have you thought of your experience so far? Is it what you expected?
David: You know, I really didn't know what to expect when I joined the Agency.
Dee: That’s fair. Yeah.
David: And I feel like most people will probably have the same consensus. Um, I can say it's been such an incredible opportunity so far, even within the Security Protective Service as a SPO, the opportunities that I've been able to get involved with here at Langley to better serve the populace that we serve, um, has really got me involved in a lot of cool stuff. And even sitting here on The Langley Files has been truly a treat and something you know, over a year and a half ago, I never would have fathomed would be the opportunities that, you know, where I would be sitting today. So, um, it's been a great experience. It's been a lot of fun. I've met a lot of great people, not just within the Security Protective Service, but in the entire Agency. There's stuff I'm learning that we do every day. And once I think I have a grasp on it, someone throws something at me, and I'm like, I had no idea that even existed.
Dee: There you go. And I I've heard, um, correct me if I'm wrong here, though. Even though that you haven't been with this very long, you were already nominated and received an award by your managers as one of the top SPOs at the Agency. Is that correct?
David: That is correct.
Dee: How does that make you feel? I mean, when your managers are recognizing you for an accolade like that.
David: You know, it was a little shocking at first. Um, but it definitely showed me that hard work pays off. I can't keep still. If I see a problem, I want to fix it. Um, and I think it's just good to know that that was recognized and appreciated by the panel of my managers.
Walter: Dee and I were not consulted. Um, but we concur.
Dee: We were not. We did. He opened it by saying that. We concur. You're well-liked and respected by most everyone at the Agency.
Walter: That’s true. So looking ahead, David, um, what are career tracks like for SPOs here at CIA?
David: So there's a plethora of things you can get into, right. The first being you move up the ranks, you can move up where we're similar in the sense of military where we do have a rank structure you'll start off as a basic officer, from there if you want to move into, like, a supervisor role, you would move up to Sergeant, right, where you're in charge of a shift. You can move up to Lieutenant where you're in charge of, you know, multiple shifts, and, um, you move up the ranks as high as you want. Another route that you can take is moving over to our specialty units. We have fully staffed fully functioning specialty units such as K-9, bomb techs, our chemical biological folks, um, that are on-call that are working 24-7 to you know, mitigate and respond to incidents that happen here at Langley. Um, and the last is everything that goes on behind the scenes. As Dee was talking about you know, the Directorate of Support, right, all that stuff that goes on behind the scenes to, you know, make it happen, um, SPS also has that. So our our business operations folks, um, anywhere from admin to logistics, ensuring that, you know, everything can kind of flow, um, and let us do what we need to do to allow everyone else to do what they need to do. So um, outside of that, you know, there's definitely a couple of other career tracks that a lot of SPOs will end up moving into, and that's moving over to the Director's Protective Staff. Um, protecting, uh, the Director and other principles that are required of us. Um, and over to our Global Response Staff assisting in just a such a unique mission for the Agency, as well as our Threat Management Unit, which we work hand-in-hand with on a daily basis when we respond to calls and things like that.
Dee: You've listed out now various roles that you could possibly move into as a SPO. What about you yourself? Like, what is it that you envision your career to be here at the Agency?
David: Now that is the million-dollar question.
Dee: Isn't it, though? People ask me that too. And I say the same thing.
David: Yeah. Um and I think that's just a, that's a testament to you know what life is like at the Agency. Right? You're doing one thing one day, and the next day you could be doing something completely different. Or maybe even just in a different avenue of what you're already doing. So, I would say being a year or so with the Agency I'm really not closing any doors. Like I've mentioned, I've I've learned so much already, and I'm learning about opportunities and things that are, you know, done here at Langley every day. So, I think it would be silly if I shut any doors, you know, at this point in time.
Dee: Sure. So, you're not, like a 10-year plan kind of guy?
David: Oh, definitely not. Yeah, you know, the the Agency is is for sure you know where I expect to be. Just given all of the opportunities and the benefits and just even within SPS, the cool things that we're able to do and the people were able to serve, it definitely gives me the warm and fuzzy to, you know, put the uniform back on every day and show up and want to put that best foot forward.
Dee: Love it! Well put.
Walter: David, we have to ask, do you have any crazy stories? I feel like everyone wonders whether the SPOs have crazy stories. Have you ever seen something strange at 3am, supernatural, maybe?
David: While there may be some stories of, uh, you know, ghosts and whatnot at 3am, when all the lights turn out. Um, I remember a specific incident that happened not too long ago at the gate. Uh, an individual had driven all the way up from Florida. Um, it was a little unusual. It was late at night right as I was about to get off shift. So, as it happens, I probably said the “Q” word, and then it happened. And, uh...
Walter: Quiet. Quiet being the “Q” word.
Dee: Knock on wood word.
David: That’s it. Yeah, that’s going to live with me for the rest of my shift today. Um, as I'm starting to talk with this individual, something just didn't seem right. And so, we're trying to verify his identity. And once we do so, we realize that he's classified as a missing person and that just it creates a whole different ball park of what we're working with. It's not, you know, a lost motorist. It's not a lost employee. We're dealing with something that's a little bit farther beyond our reach. But we're here to help. This is what we're gonna do. So, through collaboration, um, with other entities within SPS, and, um, we were able to coordinate and find a family member that resided in the DC area. Um, so we were able to get ahold of her, um, have her come out and essentially, you know, take care of, you know, the individual that we were working with and I would say after that call, it definitely felt like we had done some good. Doing what we do on a day-in-day-out basis like I said gives me that warm and fuzzy. But after we had you know, released this individual to his sister, it definitely felt like, you know, we've actually made a larger impact that goes beyond, you know, the Central Intelligence Agency.
Walter: You closed a missing persons case.
David: Right? Yeah. And that's that's not something that, you know, generally happens all the time. We're just gonna problem solve until we come to a rational conclusion. And I think in that case, it it turned out, you know, the best possible outcome.
Dee: It's been excellent talking with you, David. Is there anything that you want to make sure that the public that are listening to this podcast understand about Langley in particular?
David: I would say the biggest thing, uh, speaking to the audience that we have is that here at Langley, it is, it is not open to the public. Um, while on previous episodes with talking about the CIA Museum and its debut, um, as referenced there, right, it's not something that's open to the public. It's going to be open to official visitors and employees only. So, if that's something that you're thinking of, we would just strongly recommend viewing the material that's provided online.
Dee: Thank you for that. And it'll make your, your job here much easier, so…
Dee: Well, I mean wonderful chatting with you, David. Thank you very much for coming on. Anything you wanted to add there, Walter?
Walter: This is a dream come true.
David: You’re telling me.
Dee: He's a fan. We all are, David. Um, so again, thank you so much for coming on The Langley Files. We appreciate your time.
Walter: Yeah, we'll be seeing you at the front gate.
David: Absolutely. It has been a pleasure. Thank you guys so much for having me.
Dee: Awesome. Thanks.
Dee: He's a really good guy. I'm glad we were able to sit down and listen to a little bit about his life here at the Agency.
Walter: Most definitely a David fan. And now let's do some trivia.
Dee: Sounds good. So, the question from our last episode was another World Factbook inspired question. This European country is known for rugged hills and low mountain terrains where more than 40% of its population resides within 100 kilometers of its capital city. And it is strategically located on major air and sea routes between North America and Europe. What country are we describing?
Walter: The answer is Ireland, and the capital city referenced is Dublin, where approximately 1.27 million people reside out of approximately 5.3 million in the country.
Dee: March was definitely well-timed for a trivia question about Ireland.
Walter: Indeed, it was. And now for this episode's trivia.
Walter: In our last episode, we spoke with Linda Weissgold about the normal routine of a PDB briefer, which, for her, included waking up for work every day at 12:01am. We also referenced the fact that many officers here at the Agency do work late hours or overnight shifts. So, here's the question. For many years, one particular vending machine here at headquarters provided the fuel many officers needed for their overnight shifts. Our question for you is - what food item do you think that vending machine was known for?
Dee: I have a feeling that I know this answer, and I think it will likely surprise most of our listeners.
Walter: Oh, yeah, but they will have to tune into the next episode to hear that answer. So, in the meantime, that's it for today's episode of The Langley Files. Until next time …
Dee: We'll be seeing you.
Dee: Hey, David, uh why are you still here?
David: Hey, Walter. Do you remember where you parked this morning?
David: I guess a better question is do you know where you're not supposed to park?
Walter: Also, yeah.
Dee: Um, call me later?
Walter: I’ll need to.